Dr. Tiller was a professor in the Department of Materials Science and Engineering at Stanford University from 1964 to 1992 and department chairman from 1966-1971. As Professor Emeritus, he was actively involved in research at Stanford. He was a consultant to government and industry in the fields of metallurgy and solid state physics, and an Associate Editor of two scientific journals.

He has published more than 250 scientific papers, three technical books, and has five patents issued in the conventional science areas. Fields of specialization are crystal growth, surfaces and interfaces, physical metallurgy, semiconductor processing, thin film formation and computer simulation. He was also an Associate Editor for the Journal of Holistic Medicine, and has published more than 90 additional papers in the area of psychoenergetics.

In 1992 he became Professor Emeritus. In 1997 he published a book on pschoenergetics, Science and Human Transformation. His latest book is Conscious Acts of Creation: The Emergence of a New Physics.


CA: I understand that in the scientific community, the work that you’ve done suggests a paradigm shift. But in the new-age community or in "new thought," most people believe that consciousness affects energy and matter.

WT: Absolutely. They have that paradigm, and a lot of it came from the writings that I did in the ‘70s. They gave me an award, the International New Thought Alliance of Churches "Humanitarian of the Year Award." I’m currently writing articles for the more general public along the lines of my very recent work. People know deep within themselves the things that I’m talking about. What I have done is articulate those things in the language that has value today, that is the language of science. The goal that I have taken is to try to build a reliable bridge of understanding that will join seamlessly with our conventional knowledge and our conventional paradigm. This bridge will pass all the way through the subtle domains, to the domains of emotion, mind and spirit so that scientists and others can cross that bridge with confidence.

CA: So the biggest wall that you had to deal with is the scientific community?

WT: That is indeed the biggest wall. I had no difficulty at all with normal folks. They don’t know enough about the constraints of science and the paradigms, and they have not built walls to keep them locked into a particular worldview. We humans do this all the time. It was a big struggle back at the turn of the 20th century. Just before that, everyone was self-congratulatory in the scientific community, that they understood everything and all they had to do was dot a few ‘i’s’ and cross a few ‘t’s’. Then the universe opened its door to the quantum and relativity.

Thirty years later, there was a foundation for quite a new paradigm. That’s been going on for this past century and now conventional science is once again self-congratulatory and is talking about "the theory of everything." There is no place in the formal structure of the existing paradigm, where any human qualities of consciousness, intention, emotion, mind or spirit can enter. Yet there’s abundant data showing that humans can have a significant effect on physical reality, no matter how much conventional science denies that. They either have to sweep all this data under the rug, which is really what they’ve done, or they have to realize that the beautiful paradigm they have, isn’t beautiful enough. It means that a new expansion is required, and I think that happens all the time. Nature is always richer than our models of it. It will go on for a long, long time. To me, we’re just babes crawling along the floor of the universe. We’ve hardly begun the great adventure!

Everyone who walks an independent path pays a price—it’s just human nature. My colleagues at Stanford felt that I was a heretic and a betrayer because I didn’t adhere to the party line. I did in my conventional work, but I divided my overall work between the conventional and the unconventional. The conventional was the present paradigm stuff, and the unconventional was trying to fit things in place for a really new paradigm shift.

CA: How does the scientific community feel about your work now?

WT: They’re still in the avoidance mode. It takes a long time for people to change. For them, it’s so much easier to ignore all this stuff. It’ll take another decade, maybe longer actually, before the general scientific community really will get with it as far as this is concerned. Things change slowly. When I was younger, I thought, why don’t they get moving, why don’t they look at the work I do in the conventional field, which they are rightly proud of, and if they like what I do there, why should they ignore this other work. It’s just too threatening to their way of viewing the world.

CA: When did you first become interested in the affect consciousness has on matter?

WT: My wife and I were interested in this sort of thing back in the 50’s. In fact, we did an experiment shortly after we were married, in 1952. When I left industry and we moved to Stanford in 1964, my wife suggested that we pull together the spiritual side of our lives. We got deeply involved in meditation and inner practices and were daily meditators from the early 60s. I became Department Chair at Stanford, in the Department of Material Science, in the mid 60’s and I found the meditation work was really very powerful and very useful. One aspect of it was a deep inner focus, concentrating on things. Part of it was letting everything go and letting the universe flow in. Sort of a western and an eastern kind of thing. There was no middle ground, it was either one mode or the other. However, the more you practiced, the more you could timeshare these two modalities. If you did the timesharing fast enough, your body would always think you were in both modes.

When I was a consultant to people in industry, or to my colleagues, I could nurture them with my heart and be in touch with them emotionally. They could feel that nourishment. And yet I was able to cognitively interact with them with the focus part via their intellect and contribute to their area of work, even if I wasn’t particularly knowledgeable about it. It was as if you could tap an individuals data bank of information. And so I found that extremely useful and beneficial.

Towards the end of the 60’s my family and I read a little book, just before I went on a sabbatical to Oxford. It was called, Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain. We thought this was interesting and strange stuff, consistent with my deep interests. When I got to Oxford, instead of writing the books on the science of crystallization, which was my conventional field, I spent a good portion of my time, in daily meditation. I held the brick in question, ‘How might the universe be constructed to allow this crazy seeming kind of stuff to naturally coexist with conventional scientific understanding?’ At the end of six months, I had a beginning picture that seemed to fit both and didn’t violate any piece of physics that I knew of.

I was invited to go to Russia with the Edgar Casey Association for Research and Enlightenment in 1971, as a member of a seven man investigative team. They were doing psychoenergetics. I saw people moving objects with their minds and levitating things. That confirmed the modeling that I’d come to. There was a great deal in this crazy seeming kind of stuff that was very important for humanity to understand. I knew I really had to work at this and I couldn’t turn my back on it.

I wondered how I could focus on this work. My life was full with being Department Chairman and with government and professional committees. You build a power base to be a fully functioning and effective professor in today’s world, and I had that. I knew that I had to keep my day job at Stanford in order to feed my family, but set out on a dual life path. I gave up being department chairman and all my governmental and professional committees, and the time saved from those things, I spent on this other path.

I divided the time spent there in three boxes. One was the continued experiential development of self, so that I could know something about these things from an experiential level. The second thing was continuing to model how the universe might be constructed to allow this new stuff to naturally co-exist with conventional stuff, and to see what I had to invent to allow them to meld together. The third thing was to design experiments that pushed the frontier and to keep the theory honest.

I started this other branch of life in 1971. I talked a lot via conference lectures to the outside community and I tried to beat the drum of awareness for people. I began to write in this area and of course this horrified my colleagues at Stanford. People that were planning to have me go into the highest realms of national scientific activity just dropped me like a hot potato. It was difficult getting sufficient contracts and research support to do the main part of my job, which I continued to do. I had as many Ph.D. students and gave as many lectures as others. It was a struggle walking this dual path, you felt like a person who was always doing a split on a knife-edge. But I overcame it and I learned a lot about myself and the world, and I’ve just continued to pursue that kind of thing.

In the 80’s I had an opportunity to really develop the books that I had intended to do for the conventional field, finishing basically in 1990 and I published them in 1991 and 1992. They were in the area of the science of crystallization. When they were done, I felt that I had discharged my duties to this field and could now go more deeply into my other area, so I took an early retirement from Stanford. I stayed there as Emeritus Professor, because I still had Ph.D. students and contract research to continue.

I eventually reduced the amount of attention I gave to conventional science and increased the amount of attention I gave to this new science. Five years ago, an individual who was pretty wealthy came forward and said he would like to support my work. That led to my recent works, which dealt with the effects of human intention embedded into simple electronic devices with the specific intention being to influence a well-defined target experiment. That work was eminently successful.

In 1998, my wife and I left the Stanford area and moved to N. Arizona. In 1999, I built a laboratory on this property, and continued to do experimental research on a daily basis. I wrote up the work covering this period of three years, from 1997 to 2000. That book has just come out, called Conscious Acts of Creation: The Emergence of a New Physics. Now I have things significantly enough in place and I’m really ready to take on the conventional scientific community. It’s time to shift the paradigm and I think I can defend my thesis.

CA: What are you calling your theory? The Tiller Theory?

WT: It’s just new physics. It’s a multi-dimensional view of reality wherein humans can influence physical reality. My view is that we are all spirits having a physical experience as we ride the river of life together. We have a bio-body suit surrounding us, made of four layers. The outer most layer is the electric monopole substance layer—that’s our conventional world. The first inner layer is magnetic monopole substance layer—that’s the coarsest layer of the vacuum. It’s another part of physical reality. The next inner layer is the emotion domain substance layer, and the fourth inner layer is the mind domain substance layer. This is like a kind of diving bell. There’s a portion of our spirit self inside this device. The spirit activates the device through intention. The action of our vehicle interacting with the world builds infrastructure into the various layers of the bio-body suit. The more infrastructure there is in the layers, the more of the high-spirit self that can enter the vehicle. Then the vehicle becomes more conscious. As it becomes more conscious, it has more awareness to things it could never perceive before.

CA: How can the power of intentionality be stronger than physical reality?

WT: We show that in our experiments. In every measurement of what we call physical reality, there are two parts. There is a part associated with this outer layer stuff, conventional physical reality. There is a part that is associated with this first inner layer. In the normal reality, that we all experience, that’s called a U{1} Gauge symmetry state. In that reality, the second part is very small in magnitude compared to the first. You have to do very good statistical experiments to discriminate that factor, and that’s where most of parapsychology is.

The work of Dean Radin, with his book The Conscious Universe, shows unequivocally that this PSI capability exists in humans. But the effect size is small in most circumstances. There are superstars in that area, just like the Michael Jordans and the Tiger Woods in normal physical reality. However, generally the effect size is small. Now we find that when we imbed intention into these simple electrical devices and we turn them on beside a target experiment and we do the experiment again and again—after about three to four months, that space becomes conditioned, and goes to a higher level of symmetry. These experiments indicate that. There is a strong coupling that occurs between this normal outer layer and the first inner layer. As that coupling increases, the magnitude of the second term grows and eventually can be much larger than the first term. Then you’ve produced quite a different reality. You have new physics, you have all kinds of new things.

This is not unsimilar to what humans have done for centuries. This happens when well-intended people meet and meditate together and pray together for an uplifting ideal. When they leave that meeting, they all feel good because they’ve really connected. There’s something left in that space. If they wait a long time before they come back to that space, it may decay, but if they come back the next day, before it’s fully decayed, then they can pump it up a little higher. If they do that day in day out, week in week out, month in month out, they eventually create what we call sacred spaces—whether they are cathedrals or wherever they are on the earth. These are strange things, we don’t fully understand it but we certainly feel it. Humans have the capacity to do that, but it requires sustained, committed, directed intention.

CA: Have you heard of the work that the Maharishi is doing with prayer to help alleviate the world crisis?

WT: It’s very similar, we’re singing the same song.

CA: Do you think prayer is one of the best solutions to the crisis the world is experiencing?

WT: It’s a good partial solution. It should be done in parallel with the other solution. I think we have to recognize that there is a metastasized cancer in the body of man. If humankind is to survive, we have to deal with that metastasized cancer. We have to cut out the parts that need to be cut out, in a surgical way. We have to heal the parts that can’t be cut out. We’re all part of one family. We’re all brothers and sisters to each other. We have to learn how to do both. The Maharishi approach is a good one, but that alone will not be enough because we already have the cancer growing in us.

CA: By cancer, do you mean an inability to love?

WT: Yes, in essence. The solution is for us to learn how to love more fully and deeply; to look at the world through our hearts as well as through our head. How to become more inner-self managed. You’re self-managed when enough of this spirit self comes into this bio-body. Then you recognize that you’re part of everyone and they’re part of you. If you build them, you build yourself. There’s no lack of connection. It turns out that in the outer layer of our bio-body suit, our neural systems are based upon contrast. We appear to be separate from each other, but there is a kind of reciprocal mirror relationship between the outer layer and the first inner layer. At this first inner-layer level we are connected, we are all entangled. One cannot do anything without others being influenced because we are entangled. We are truly connected at that level.

CA: You talk about the universe consisting of tightly packed microscopic nodal structures, and of a geometric harmonic grid that makes cause and effect an illusion, so that nothing is random. Is our future predetermined?

WT: We create the future collectively all the time. At the reciprocal space level, it is the first inner-layer of the bio-body suit. That’s the template, that’s the prephysical in essence. By our individual attitudes and our thoughts, we make imprints and create changes at this reciprocal space level, this first inner level of the bio-body suit. The mathematics of that plays out to change the future that we are cognitively aware of in distance-time. If we make pattern changes at the high frequency level of reciprocal space, then it emerges very quickly in distance time. If it is in the low frequency region, than it takes some time for it to emerge. That’s just part of the mathematics, connecting these two subspaces. That’s really how we are creating the future in the large overview sense.

Now, there’re a lot of detailed interactions that go towards this geometrical grid structure that you just mentioned. Those details get dicey, it’s very complex and difficult to communicate at this point in time. In my basic model, that I came to in this meditation work, back in the 1970’s, a picture emerged in my mind of a sort of three interpenetrating superimposed grid structures. The finest was a Close-Packed {CP} structure of nodal points. Hexagonal {CP} in a three dimensional structure. That grid size is on a size scale of about 10 to the -25 meters. That’s the mind, nodal network lattice. It’s always ordered in my modeling. There is a super lattice, of the same basic structure, (this hexagonal {CP} structure), which is a factor of 10 billion times larger. So those points in the primary grid, that are at this larger size-scale, have a difference to them, those nodal network points. That’s new, that super lattice is also hexagonal {CP}. It’s rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise to the primary one. There is a third super lattice, which is another factor of 10 billion times larger in size, which is also hexagonal {CP}, and is counterclockwise by another 90 degrees. The primary nodal network point grid is the mind lattice. The secondary one is this reciprocal space, the first inner layer of the bio-body suit. Its grid size is about 10 to the minus 15 meters. Then there is the third super lattice, of nodal points, which is the physical domain super lattice. That’s at a grid spacing of about 10 to the minus 5 meters.

These nodal points are transducers and transponders. They are converters of consciousness to energy. They are elements that respond to consciousness. Spirit makes an intention. The intention is imprinted in some format, onto the mind nodal network lattice. Those consciousness waves are propagated and diffracted from the mind lattice, to the next super lattice, also hexagonal {CP} and is 90 degrees rotated from the primary one. It means that the diffracted beam from the mind lattice, goes through the nodal network points of the reciprocal space lattice. They are converted and downshifted into another frequency band. They are converted into some other aspect of consciousness waves. They are defracted from that sublattice, the reciprocal space nodal network points, and those diffracted beams go through the nodal network points of the third sublattice—the physical sublattice nodal network points. All those nodal points are converters—certainly the latter two, the reciprocal space and the direct space nodal network lattices. They convert consciousness to energy and send energy beams to the surrounding area. That’s what our physical stuff responds to. No experimental evidence is available yet to confirm the existence of these three nodal point structures.

We have an equation that Einstein worked on, between mass and energy and that is found in the famous relationship E=MC2. I’m saying, hey, we have another part of that equation, which is energy converting back and forth to consciousness. We have yet to discover what that connecting formula is. I think that there is a further conversion from consciousness to love. Love, divine love, from the level of spirit, creates everything. It goes to consciousness, and consciousness goes to energy, and energy goes to matter. That’s the picture I hold, and that’s how the geometries come in and are important. This is how intention from the level of spirit can influence the substance of the outer layer of the bio-body suit, and that aspect of the world.

As we increase the coupling between the outermost layer and the first inner layer, through intention, we increase the magnitude of the effect. If the effect becomes big enough, we totally change the world. As you condition the space to a higher level of symmetry, you can see it as a sort of spot that starts in one place, and then another place, and then another place. We have seen this in the various laboratories that we’ve conditioned. Once they are conditioned beyond a certain level, you can take away the conditioning device and they can stay stable, in one place for well over a year and still going. It looks to me that this is the way that humanity can eventually change the level of Gauge symmetry of the world. It will be a totally new experience, a new world. How long it will take to get there, I don’t know, but we’re on the path.

CA: Your work sounds really critical right now.

WT: What we think and our attitudes really matter. We are affecting the playout we’ve all collectively created. We’ve created everything that happens in Afghanistan by our actions and our thoughts over the last decades.

CA: People don’t take themselves seriously, they don’t understand the potential of their own personal power, they give away their freedom, they want to be led.

WT: Exactly. Even though deep within ourselves we know the truth of these things, we doubt it at a conscious level. That’s why the experiments are so important. People have come to trust experiments.

CA: Are you interested in studying any particular groups of people like shamans of yogis?

WT: No, I work from the inside out. I’m at that place where the universe brings things to my door and I respond to them. I’m just a worker in the field. There’s another metaphor that I should share with you which relates to what I see as the three branches of consciousness, the growth of consciousness. The first branch is called the ascending branch, it wasn’t original with me, it’s by an Indian gentleman. The ascending branch is what we all do, we go to school, we struggle, we increase in capacity, we’re very proud of ourselves, we’re happy with what we’ve accomplished. And if we’re fortunate, somewhere along that path, we come to the second branch of consciousness called the surrender branch. That branch is where you give up your personal ego for the larger ego, you recognize that you are a part of the deep self and you take your personal ego out of things. That is difficult for most of humanity, it’s not easy. But that’s a very important step. Now these two branches are parallel. If you’re fortunate, the third branch starts. The third branch is the descending branch. That’s the branch where the universe works through you into the world. You’re part of the all, you’re part of that great dance of life.

CA: In practical terms, how would you like people to apply this?

WT: The steps are really important. It’s really important for everyone to set time aside and diligently practice meditation. To quiet the noise within themselves at the outer-most level, to increase the magnitude of the signals on the deeper level so they become larger, and you get in touch with the deeper self. The second thing is to practice inner self-management. There are many tools for that. Yoga focuses on stilling the mind so you can be in touch with the deeper self. Chi Gong, the basis of all the martial arts, focuses on this. Heart Math focuses on the heart to still the mind. Inner self-management builds infrastructure. It’s a kind of a bootstrap operation. When you see the world through the heart, the heart nourishes the subtle layers of reality and you become a highly sophisticated instrument.

Loving is a muscle, the love that is strong and eternal endures. Love is the creation. It is love that coheres and it is hate that decoheres. We have not evolved far enough to understand what love is. My view of the Big Bang is that before the Big Bang, there was spirit, the mind domain, and the emotion domain. Divine intention created a Big Bang. It’s involved in the formation of the outer layers of the body suit. We take on those layers when we are born, but the other parts remain eternal and indestructible. We learn how to develop the gift of intentionality. Free choice comes in because there is no real internal growth without free choice. We learn to become co-creators with our spiritual parents.

Now we’re on the homeward journey, back towards the state of total coherence of all life and, on that path home, we will successively raise the Gauge symmetry state of our world to higher and higher states and experience the new cultures we create based upon the new physics and new technologies discovered at each main higher Gauge symmetry level. It is my hope that we all co-create these futures with joy and compassion for all firmly held in our hearts!

This interview was conducted on January 24, 2002


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